Discussion about this post

User's avatar
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly's avatar

I don't think Smith's disagreement with you is difficult to identify at all. In the closing, you assert that "The new conservatives are articulating a better case for markets and offering a more effective role for economics than the preachers of a singularly unappealing and empirically unsupportable faith." But that "case" is just a series of abstract goals--better jobs, more stable communities, etc.--without any real (or more importantly, *realistic*) plan for achieving them, which is essentially a mirror image of your own criticism that neoliberals merely "promise [markets] will work."

So back to Smith, his fundamental thesis appears to be that whatever merit the specific criticisms you and others might level at economics as a discipline, you've failed to offer an actionable alternative framework. And insofar as you continue to provide intellectual cover to Trumpist trade policies that even you tacitly concede are destructive, that critique obviously has merit.

Expand full comment
Gordon Strause's avatar

I think that was far from Noah Smith's best piece, but in the comments he actually summarizes his real issues with your work, which I don't think you have ever responded to (or at least I'm not aware of your response). Have copied Noah's comment below.

And I wish you would respond. I have been referring friends who are interested in the "steel man" case for tariffs to your work, but I have been saying that you are interesting and worth reading but ultimately wrong. Noah's comment below is a good summary of why I think that's true.

What makes your work interesting is that I think you are correct that the huge drop in employment in the manufacturing sector has dealt a blow to many American communities and that we need to be paying more attention to that. That said, in a world of increasing automation (which is only going to increase with AI), I think that drop was inevitable regardless of our trade policy.

So I think we need to be focused on ways to increase "social solidarity" (to use Noah's term below) that are about making sure people have fulfilling lives no matter what type of work they do.

----

https://open.substack.com/pub/noahpinion/p/the-anti-economists-have-overreached?r=7jm13&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=121733490

Noah Smith

2d

"Cass has failed to address the fundamental question of *what we will get* from distorting the market in order to promote on-shoring. Advocates of targeted industrial policy (like myself) HAVE answered that question: We will get national security and technological leadership relative to China. But Oren simply assumes that A) tariffs will lead to on-shoring of manufacturing, and that B) this will somehow improve the non-economic parts of human life, like community and social trust.

I don't think there's good evidence for either of those propositions. I wrote about the first one here:

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/the-pundits-dilemma

As for community-building, I still don't even understand how Oren and the MAGA folks think tariffs are supposed to build social solidarity in America. It sounds like magical thinking. I wrote about that here:

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/this-thing-will-fail"

Expand full comment
28 more comments...