Oren, it's time to get a grip. Have you actually read Don's on the record comments, been to a rally, or read his pathetic bleats on "Truth" Social? The leader of your "new" right, the leader of the current political establishment, is racist to his core. One does not use terms like invasion, vermin, rapists, eating the pets, poisoning the blood, animals, infestation, shithole countries, bloodthirsty criminals, most violent people on earth, stone cold killers, the worst people, etc, unless one is a racist. Please stop trying to retrofit an intellectual veneer on this vile human. It's so ironic Don leads your "new" right. This style of demagoguery isn't new, it's about as old as it gets, a classic authoritarian move to dehumanize minority populations. Shame on you for enabling it. Admit the truth, admit what we can all read and watch on video. Exhibit character. I'm ashamed of my president, are you not? As we speak, he's embarrassing us once more on the world stage as he puts his ignorance on display. We all understand you desperately want a job, but self-gelding in public just isn't a good look.
E-verify combined with zero access to taxpayer funded benefits would encourage voluntary repatriation without coercion. It remains to be seen if Congress will do anything whatsoever for the American public. There must surely be a first time for everything.
I am all for this, with the caveat that we still provide medical support to children. Not just the political black eye for denying help to children, but the moral blemish is unacceptable. I recognize this aspect would not lessen the attraction of illegal immigration as much as 100% denial of tax-funded services for all illegal immigrants, but I feel we should carefully, jealously, consider the moral risk to our sense of citizenship and basic compassion as part of this unhappy circumstance in which we find ourselves vis-a-vis current illegal immigration and and the intertwining with our economy.
If the Trump administration had hired Oren Cass on his team and actually use policies you have laid out in this article (I particularly like the LIFO), people wouldn’t be screaming. Unfortunately, it focuses on using people who carried a chip on their shoulders (or crazies like Stephen Miller) who wanted to cause as much pain as they can on the other side. I’ve read from others who said if we truly wish to stop illegal immigrants, simply do it by punishing the employers. That will stop most employment of undocumented labors right away. The fact we don’t show that the administration is not whole heartedly invested in this goal.
This all makes sense Oren - especially the part about using e-verify. However in 10 years in Florida all we have seen is it gets watered down and there is virtually zero enforcement. At the state level the politicians are controlled by business but elected by the citizens. The end result is tough talk and laws but no enforcement. Sure we could use more automation but that would cost more than cheap labor otherwise we would have it already.
Good essay. I guess I'd note that Trump also said he will enforce the laws in Democratic areas and not in Republican ones. That strikes me as tearing at the root of our social order.
Matt, they are going hard at the sanctuary cities. This is where the problems are accruing. Which surprise - are all democratic monopolized cities. Yes monopolies. Which we all know are bad for the country and economy especially of that city. Corruption becomes rampant in these one party-controlled cities and states.
We can disagree on where problems are accruing, what we can agree on is that if 'sanctuary cities' are against the law, then so are 'sanctuary meatpacking plants' and 'sanctuary farms.' And Trump changed his mind again so apparently he now sees it that way too.
Democrats today Matt are basically just the party of "social causes" Democrats quit on working people in the 1990's. This thru Clinton and Rubin allowed the democrats to get multi-nationals, CIA, Wall Street, Silicone Vally, which is the neo cons/ Deepstate on their side.
Hopefully Oren and his mix can get the republican party to support working people. It looks like it could happen? wow what a turnaround huh? Republicans for working people. Who would have thought?
Both parties are now pretty much dead and worthless. Let's see who can reinvent themselves first? If one or the other can. Looks like the republicans are way ahead at the moment. Right now, neither party is wanted by the youngsters, and I don't blame them. It ain't working for them now. Neo cons gotta go!
So you’re saying that the states that have been solidly red for decades have rampant corruption. That’s an interesting admission. Here’s a riddle for you. Don won 2633 counties in 2024 (86%), Harris won 427. And yet, Harris counties represent 62% of the nations GDP, Don’s represent 38%. Further, states that Harris won are net donors of tax receipts to states Don won. How long do you think voters in red areas will refuse to hold the Republicans who run their state and local jurisdictions accountable for the conditions you lament? And, is Don’s incessant focus on the evils of brown people just a modern day form of demagoguery similar to what we’ve seen throughout history in times of major economic transformations? Is it merely a reductive strategery of blame that seeks to confer power on the demagogue while simultaneously absolving him of responsibility? The tragedy of course is that immigrants are critical to the economic success of struggling red jurisdictions, they represent their only population growth. I live in the most manufacturing intensive state in the nation, a ruby red rust belt state. Census data shows the only population growth we have comes from immigration, otherwise our fading towns would shrink even faster. So, why DO these voters continue to re-elect the establishment party given its inability to deliver for so long?
"Mandatory E-Verify should be the cornerstone of labor market enforcement." Democrats and Republicans have been talking about E-Verify for decades now but it never gets passed. The donor class, on which our elected representatives in DC depend for campaign contributions, is just too powerful.
Here's an alternative idea: a biometric Social Security card to replace the current one made out of cardboard. This new card, in effect a proof of legal status, would then be required to function in our society: not only to get a job, but to open a bank account, use a credit card, make a cash transaction to buy groceries or gas, sign a lease, get a driver's license, etc.. Illegals without such an ID could then self-deport with federal assistance, possibly over a period of time.
As for how to get it through Congress, make it part of a Contract with America that every congressman or senator must pledge to support (or not) before the next general election. Making a Contract with America was New Gingrich's idea back in 1990's and it was very effective as I recall.
Granted, to design and fully implement such a program would take several years. But that's no reason not to start now.
Can someone estimate the impact on food prices if all illegal immigrants are expelled by 2030? Are citizens willing to pay the costs? What wage would be needed to get citizens to pick fruits and vegetables?
At one time I tried to figure out what the labor cost of broccoli or lettuce was, people have studied it from an agricultural profitability perspective. It's not that much, there is already lots of price variability day to day and store to store. Lots of markup from farm to purchaser to wholesaler to retail. Currently earnings are probably around $15, if labor is 20% of the cost of something, paying $1.20 for something you used to pay $1 for is not that much. For $30 an hour I would think many would do the work.
Every article or news program on the subject never mentions what they pay and what they are willing to pay.
Folks, stop the spinning, it's time to invoke Occam's razor. There is no nuanced, well-reasoned, thoughtful policy involved here. No 4 D chess, no art of the deal, no strategery. Don wants to deport brown people, why? Because they're brown. Thats it. He's said it clearly enough, openly enough, and often enough that he's not left anything to the imagination. Don may be vile, but I gotta give him credit for being transparent. It's like his corruption, he openly admits he's pocketing hundreds of millions in corrupt loot from our nations foreign adversaries with his meme coin scam. The surprising thing isn't the latest Don buffoonery, it's that so many elites like Oren excuse it, rationalize it, and enable it. It's time for a new right, a new establishment. The 10 year old version we have now has gone stale, lost its way, and has become a cult of Don. We can do better than this aging, angry, incoherent imbecile. Imagine him at 82. Good luck America...
Once again, Oren’s approach offers a reasonable way forward that exacts standards that can be implemented, tracked and assessed, demonstrates compassion and reinforces our values more broadly, as well as sets the conditions for long-term economic success that should enlist bi-partisan Congressional support. Should, but likely won’t…with the current number of self-serving, morally impoverished and/or incompetent crooks in office.
I wonder what the effect would be on illegal immigration if only citizens and legal migrants were counted towards determnining congressional representation. I think I would support a change in the constitution to make that happen. You could still count 'everyone' in the census. But, I don't see why anyone here illegally is entitled to congressional representation. Of course, there are many members of congress who would not be in favor of this.
Your opening remark that "abrupt reversal of longstanding policy causes unnecessary costs and disruptions" can be said about practically everything Trump does. And when these very real issues come to light from his own base, we get the TACO outcome. I could not agree with you more, we need a working solution, and what you laid out makes perfect sense. Repeatedly demonstrating any lack of a credible strategy makes the new right look stupid, exposes their disinguine motives and makes them very beatable in future election cycles.
The thing to watch out for when discussing segments like agriculture and immigrants is not having their ability to stay in the country tied to an employer who can threaten to fire workers and have them deported if they ask for fair wages and working conditions. Think indentured servitude. That sure wouldn't help citizen workers.
Why not allow those who have been working here for at least 5 years, not only a work permit, but a pathway to citizenship. Also, anyone with a work permit should be required to pay into Social Security (and their employer must contribute the employers share).
Why are you afraid to answer my question? It is simple: either allow a pathway to citizenship or not for people who have been here for at least 5 years.
The mobility of capital on the one hand and the mobility of cheap labor on the other.
Makes it a lot harder for the working class to earn a decent living.
But given the demographic time bomb about to hit all around the world, immigration to the United States is also a good thing.
Perhaps half a loaf on the immigration issue is the spot where policy collides with practice.
It may also be that tempering nationalist populist policy with Christian compassion for immigrants would be a character building exercise that helps create a more durable social movement with better results.
It is certainly the case, as I have argued previously that it is neoliberalism not immigrants who are responsible for the mess we are in. Scapegoating immigrants for our economic problems too closely resembles scapegoating the Jews by the Nazis.
Oren, it's time to get a grip. Have you actually read Don's on the record comments, been to a rally, or read his pathetic bleats on "Truth" Social? The leader of your "new" right, the leader of the current political establishment, is racist to his core. One does not use terms like invasion, vermin, rapists, eating the pets, poisoning the blood, animals, infestation, shithole countries, bloodthirsty criminals, most violent people on earth, stone cold killers, the worst people, etc, unless one is a racist. Please stop trying to retrofit an intellectual veneer on this vile human. It's so ironic Don leads your "new" right. This style of demagoguery isn't new, it's about as old as it gets, a classic authoritarian move to dehumanize minority populations. Shame on you for enabling it. Admit the truth, admit what we can all read and watch on video. Exhibit character. I'm ashamed of my president, are you not? As we speak, he's embarrassing us once more on the world stage as he puts his ignorance on display. We all understand you desperately want a job, but self-gelding in public just isn't a good look.
E-verify combined with zero access to taxpayer funded benefits would encourage voluntary repatriation without coercion. It remains to be seen if Congress will do anything whatsoever for the American public. There must surely be a first time for everything.
I am all for this, with the caveat that we still provide medical support to children. Not just the political black eye for denying help to children, but the moral blemish is unacceptable. I recognize this aspect would not lessen the attraction of illegal immigration as much as 100% denial of tax-funded services for all illegal immigrants, but I feel we should carefully, jealously, consider the moral risk to our sense of citizenship and basic compassion as part of this unhappy circumstance in which we find ourselves vis-a-vis current illegal immigration and and the intertwining with our economy.
If the Trump administration had hired Oren Cass on his team and actually use policies you have laid out in this article (I particularly like the LIFO), people wouldn’t be screaming. Unfortunately, it focuses on using people who carried a chip on their shoulders (or crazies like Stephen Miller) who wanted to cause as much pain as they can on the other side. I’ve read from others who said if we truly wish to stop illegal immigrants, simply do it by punishing the employers. That will stop most employment of undocumented labors right away. The fact we don’t show that the administration is not whole heartedly invested in this goal.
This all makes sense Oren - especially the part about using e-verify. However in 10 years in Florida all we have seen is it gets watered down and there is virtually zero enforcement. At the state level the politicians are controlled by business but elected by the citizens. The end result is tough talk and laws but no enforcement. Sure we could use more automation but that would cost more than cheap labor otherwise we would have it already.
Good essay. I guess I'd note that Trump also said he will enforce the laws in Democratic areas and not in Republican ones. That strikes me as tearing at the root of our social order.
Matt, they are going hard at the sanctuary cities. This is where the problems are accruing. Which surprise - are all democratic monopolized cities. Yes monopolies. Which we all know are bad for the country and economy especially of that city. Corruption becomes rampant in these one party-controlled cities and states.
We can disagree on where problems are accruing, what we can agree on is that if 'sanctuary cities' are against the law, then so are 'sanctuary meatpacking plants' and 'sanctuary farms.' And Trump changed his mind again so apparently he now sees it that way too.
Democrats today Matt are basically just the party of "social causes" Democrats quit on working people in the 1990's. This thru Clinton and Rubin allowed the democrats to get multi-nationals, CIA, Wall Street, Silicone Vally, which is the neo cons/ Deepstate on their side.
Hopefully Oren and his mix can get the republican party to support working people. It looks like it could happen? wow what a turnaround huh? Republicans for working people. Who would have thought?
Both parties are now pretty much dead and worthless. Let's see who can reinvent themselves first? If one or the other can. Looks like the republicans are way ahead at the moment. Right now, neither party is wanted by the youngsters, and I don't blame them. It ain't working for them now. Neo cons gotta go!
So you’re saying that the states that have been solidly red for decades have rampant corruption. That’s an interesting admission. Here’s a riddle for you. Don won 2633 counties in 2024 (86%), Harris won 427. And yet, Harris counties represent 62% of the nations GDP, Don’s represent 38%. Further, states that Harris won are net donors of tax receipts to states Don won. How long do you think voters in red areas will refuse to hold the Republicans who run their state and local jurisdictions accountable for the conditions you lament? And, is Don’s incessant focus on the evils of brown people just a modern day form of demagoguery similar to what we’ve seen throughout history in times of major economic transformations? Is it merely a reductive strategery of blame that seeks to confer power on the demagogue while simultaneously absolving him of responsibility? The tragedy of course is that immigrants are critical to the economic success of struggling red jurisdictions, they represent their only population growth. I live in the most manufacturing intensive state in the nation, a ruby red rust belt state. Census data shows the only population growth we have comes from immigration, otherwise our fading towns would shrink even faster. So, why DO these voters continue to re-elect the establishment party given its inability to deliver for so long?
"Mandatory E-Verify should be the cornerstone of labor market enforcement." Democrats and Republicans have been talking about E-Verify for decades now but it never gets passed. The donor class, on which our elected representatives in DC depend for campaign contributions, is just too powerful.
Here's an alternative idea: a biometric Social Security card to replace the current one made out of cardboard. This new card, in effect a proof of legal status, would then be required to function in our society: not only to get a job, but to open a bank account, use a credit card, make a cash transaction to buy groceries or gas, sign a lease, get a driver's license, etc.. Illegals without such an ID could then self-deport with federal assistance, possibly over a period of time.
As for how to get it through Congress, make it part of a Contract with America that every congressman or senator must pledge to support (or not) before the next general election. Making a Contract with America was New Gingrich's idea back in 1990's and it was very effective as I recall.
Granted, to design and fully implement such a program would take several years. But that's no reason not to start now.
Is this your idea of commenting about a comment you liked? Not a good look.
Can someone estimate the impact on food prices if all illegal immigrants are expelled by 2030? Are citizens willing to pay the costs? What wage would be needed to get citizens to pick fruits and vegetables?
At one time I tried to figure out what the labor cost of broccoli or lettuce was, people have studied it from an agricultural profitability perspective. It's not that much, there is already lots of price variability day to day and store to store. Lots of markup from farm to purchaser to wholesaler to retail. Currently earnings are probably around $15, if labor is 20% of the cost of something, paying $1.20 for something you used to pay $1 for is not that much. For $30 an hour I would think many would do the work.
Every article or news program on the subject never mentions what they pay and what they are willing to pay.
After the big meatpacking bust in Nebraska, there were supposedly long lines at the company's HR office
Folks, stop the spinning, it's time to invoke Occam's razor. There is no nuanced, well-reasoned, thoughtful policy involved here. No 4 D chess, no art of the deal, no strategery. Don wants to deport brown people, why? Because they're brown. Thats it. He's said it clearly enough, openly enough, and often enough that he's not left anything to the imagination. Don may be vile, but I gotta give him credit for being transparent. It's like his corruption, he openly admits he's pocketing hundreds of millions in corrupt loot from our nations foreign adversaries with his meme coin scam. The surprising thing isn't the latest Don buffoonery, it's that so many elites like Oren excuse it, rationalize it, and enable it. It's time for a new right, a new establishment. The 10 year old version we have now has gone stale, lost its way, and has become a cult of Don. We can do better than this aging, angry, incoherent imbecile. Imagine him at 82. Good luck America...
Once again, Oren’s approach offers a reasonable way forward that exacts standards that can be implemented, tracked and assessed, demonstrates compassion and reinforces our values more broadly, as well as sets the conditions for long-term economic success that should enlist bi-partisan Congressional support. Should, but likely won’t…with the current number of self-serving, morally impoverished and/or incompetent crooks in office.
Excellent essay. Thank you.
I wonder what the effect would be on illegal immigration if only citizens and legal migrants were counted towards determnining congressional representation. I think I would support a change in the constitution to make that happen. You could still count 'everyone' in the census. But, I don't see why anyone here illegally is entitled to congressional representation. Of course, there are many members of congress who would not be in favor of this.
Your opening remark that "abrupt reversal of longstanding policy causes unnecessary costs and disruptions" can be said about practically everything Trump does. And when these very real issues come to light from his own base, we get the TACO outcome. I could not agree with you more, we need a working solution, and what you laid out makes perfect sense. Repeatedly demonstrating any lack of a credible strategy makes the new right look stupid, exposes their disinguine motives and makes them very beatable in future election cycles.
The thing to watch out for when discussing segments like agriculture and immigrants is not having their ability to stay in the country tied to an employer who can threaten to fire workers and have them deported if they ask for fair wages and working conditions. Think indentured servitude. That sure wouldn't help citizen workers.
Why not allow those who have been working here for at least 5 years, not only a work permit, but a pathway to citizenship. Also, anyone with a work permit should be required to pay into Social Security (and their employer must contribute the employers share).
Why are you afraid to answer my question? It is simple: either allow a pathway to citizenship or not for people who have been here for at least 5 years.
Difficult issue.
The mobility of capital on the one hand and the mobility of cheap labor on the other.
Makes it a lot harder for the working class to earn a decent living.
But given the demographic time bomb about to hit all around the world, immigration to the United States is also a good thing.
Perhaps half a loaf on the immigration issue is the spot where policy collides with practice.
It may also be that tempering nationalist populist policy with Christian compassion for immigrants would be a character building exercise that helps create a more durable social movement with better results.
It is certainly the case, as I have argued previously that it is neoliberalism not immigrants who are responsible for the mess we are in. Scapegoating immigrants for our economic problems too closely resembles scapegoating the Jews by the Nazis.